Sister Eileen: When were you born?
Vivian: I was born on August 13, 1927.
Sister Eileen: And where?
Vivian: Montgomery Pennsylvania.
Sister Eileen: Tell me a little bit about your family. What did your father do?
Vivian: My father was in furniture manufacturing and selling with a furniture company in Montgomery Pennsylvania and also outfits in Williamsburg Pennsylvania which is a much bigger city. But they're all around the same central part of Pennsylvania.
Sister Eileen: How many people are in your family?
Vivian: My immediate family, I have my Mother, my Father, my Brother and myself. That is it.
Sister Eileen: And where did you go to school?
Vivian: I went to school in Montgomery, and then when my father was killed by a train accident, he was driving his car and he went through a crossing and they didn't put the crossing sign down and then it hit him. My health was poor, my mother moved to Miami Beach, the fact is we lived in Covington Arms which is an apartment house over on Alton Road across from the Fleetwood. This goes way back. This was in the thirties, thirty... let's see, when was it? Thirty four. Miami Beach was an archive from what it is today.
Sister Eileen: So, then you went to St. Patrick's for school?
Vivian: Well, then I started out in a place which is called Cake School and we decided that after several years I graduated from Seesaw to Sandpile, and I didn't know anything, it was one of those rich kid schools and my mother didn't realize it. My mother was shaky having lost her husband, and I was in such poor health, that she coddled me, and sent me to this school and I never learned how to read, I never learned anything. My brother meanwhile went to Beach High because we lived in Miami Beach. It came that my brother would read the funnies to me, not because he loved me, because I couldn't read. When my mother figured that out, she pulled me out of this little school and I went to St. Patrick's. Again, Beach High was a little more boisterous than St. Patrick's, although we grew up Catholic. St. Patrick's was a semi-private school and where I was, I would get better attention and better everything.
Sister Eileen: What do you recall about your days at St. Patrick's and the Sisters there and Monsignor.
Vivian: Well, Monsignor at St. Patrick's, but I remember a lot of the teachers there, I was there since fourth grade all the way through high school. The thing I remember the most and the worst was that I joined a Sorority and my Junior year and Sororities then were kind of taboo because it was a blackball kind of Sorority. It had nothing to do with St. Patrick's, it had to do with the public high schools. I had a circle of friends, and of course I had a lot of friends at St. Patrick's. St. Patrick's was small. I wanted to join this Sorority, but my brother didn't want me to because they drank beer at parties and things and I said, "I don't have to drink beer, I can drink it whether I belong to a Sorority or I don't." That was our first family crisis because my brother wasn't raising me, I was raising me and my parents were listening to my brother. But anyway, when push came to shove, they let me join because life would end if I didn't join this Sorority.
It was our Senior year and we had about three months to graduate, of course we were all divided now. All through high school we were together and in our senior year we were divided because those of us in the Sorority were mixing with the Fraternities and they weren't part of our group. But, I wasn't smart enough to see that, I thought this was great. Monsignor called us into the auditorium, and he said, "Some of you people here belong to a Sorority and some of you belong to a Fraternity and most of you don't. Anyone who intends to graduate from this school and walks out of this auditorium is telling me that you are resigning from the Sorority or Fraternity. If you do not chose to resign, you may stay in the auditorium and everybody else gets out and we will record your name and you may leave school. He didn't fool around, you know, there was no fooling around. So, it didn't take me a whole heck of a lot of time to decide that I better graduate. So, I resigned, most of us did and we had the best three months of high school that we had ever had and we were all together, one or two walked out, I can't believe how stupid kids can be. But, we didn't have the problems we have today; we have drugs; we had beer. Beer was the big drug. I hated it, so I didn't have any problem. We graduated as a group and as a team.
Sister Eileen: Who was your principal then?
Vivian: The principal then was Sister Roseanne, part of that was Sister Ann Terance, and part of that was another, it started with a G. Is there a sister with a G? There were three. If I figure it out, I'll let you know.
Sister Eileen: You knew Monsignor, do you have any other recollections of Monsignor?
Vivian: Many. Monsignor was the one that baptized me. He said, "You've had enough of this nonsense, we're going to the baptist church instead of the Catholic church." I was old enough to know what I was doing and he said, "It's time that you enter the church." And so I did. I owe that to him. He was very stern, but he was a good friend.
I moved out here, my mother had married, and then my stepfather had died. My mother wasn't well anyway. She came here and Monsignor invited her to dinner many times with Father Demlevy, the Bard as we called him would sing into the night. And Father Burke, and we had many a party here with just the priests and my mother and I. My mother ran a book shop for Monsignor Barry. Janet Walker, who was the former wife of Mayor Jimmy Walker in New York. She was down here visiting and Jimmy Walker sent her a Dear John letter and divorced her. So, she started running this Catholic Article shop. My mother would go and help her once in a while. She was a very good friend of Mrs. Walker. When Mrs. Walker died, Monsignor asked mother if she would come in and just get it going a little bit. Well, that lasted five years or so, she worked there like a little Trojan. She'd give everything to Monsignor, she thought he was the beginning and the end of the world. I think we all did, he was just a special, special person.
Sister Eileen: Do you remember any of the humorous things that happened?
Vivian: Oh, yeah. I remember when he was here one time and we had little red beets with part of our dinner and he dropped them on the floor. He was down on the floor and he said, "Where did all those little red devils go?" He had a great sense of humor, he really did. I remember the boys, my brother, and his class, Robert Gaffney and Jack Hammily and these boys. Bob Gaffney would always get in trouble, and he would get up in the pulpit in church and he'd start imitating Monsignor. I remember one time, we were all in there hysterical with him and Monsignor walks in the back listening to all of this. We were trying to warn him and warn him, we couldn't. Of course, I know now, that it was all Monsignor could do to keep a straight face, but boy, he put on a stern show.
I remember Father Burke telling me, when we invited them over for dinner one time, when they were just building Julia Tuttle, which he wasn't really too happy with because he didn't want to bring a lot of traffic, he wasn't happy with Howard Johnson's going, he wanted to keep it a peaceful community, but you don't stand in the way of progress. So, here comes Julia Tuttle, and they were coming over for dinner, and the quickest way was to come over Julia Tuttle than to go all the way around it. He went up it and it wasn't opened, and Father Burke said, "You can't go that way." So, he said, "Well, it's there, why can't we go that way? There's a bridge there, I can see it." So, they ran out there and Father Burke told on him when they arrived. They drive up to the horses, Father Burke would have to get out, move them, put them back, then he'd go to the next one, move him... Father Burke all the time thinking, "I'm going to get arrested, something's going to happen." But, they made it, they had no problem.
Sister Eileen: So, how did you come to Barry?
Vivian: Well, part of it was partly through all of that. I was aware of Barry because Monsignor's sister and brother, and my brother, there's a picture in your handbook of my brother with Michael O'Neil. They used to serve Fulton Sheen when they would come down here. My brother is right there, years and years ago. So, he would serve some of it at the ground breaking. He was in on some of those things for the church, not necessarily for Barry, but we were aware of it. And of course, Mother Gerald being part of the Barry family and the Bishop Boon and then Monsignor would go up and down raising money whenever Mother Gerald wanted it which is why we have no endowment today, but that's besides the point. So, he acquainted us with it then and St. Patrick's. Also, I was going to go away to school, but the war was coming. I went to Barry in '41, and we were in the middle of the second World War. Traveling was very difficult, and I was going to go to Penn State. Everything was difficult.
Sister Eileen: So, you went in '41?
Vivian: No, no I didn't. I graduated from, I went in '45. In '41 I was in high school. I went in '46.
Sister Eileen: You graduated in '49.
Vivian: So, I started there in '45, but it was September of '45. The war we felt was over, but the traveling and the schools were crowded. Everybody was coming back and I couldn't claim Pennsylvania residency anymore, but I was low man on the list. I couldn't get in and at the same time, recruiters were coming around to high schools. When it was our high school, they talked about Barry and offered me a scholarship, and what with everything being tight after the war, I though, "Well, I'll go to Barry for two years, and I'll go away for the other two years." When I got to Barry, I liked Barry, and so I said I'd just stay at Barry and everything worked fine. I lived at Barry while we weren't at home to get that away atmosphere and to divorce myself from that. Although, I'd drive half the school home on weekends, so I'm sure it would have been much better if I stayed home than done that.
Sister Eileen: How would you evaluate your education at Barry?
Vivian: I would say it had everything I needed. Looking back, I changed my career several times, so I wouldn't have taken different things. It was small. It's still small relatively speaking, small enough to give you the individual attention that I enjoyed. And I did enjoy that and yet there was enough of us that we had enough atmosphere to get troubles we wanted, or to have the fun we wanted, or to join groups and clubs.
Sister Eileen: What teachers do you recall?
Vivian: At Barry?
Sister Eileen: Yes.
Vivian: Well, Sister Mary Paul because she had English as a major and I spent a lot of time with her. I remember Sister Euwonise, I took one course from her, but I am a frustrated drawer, not an artist. I can copy anything. You give me cartoons, I can copy anything and all that sort of stuff, but to make it up myself and to see it, I'm just not a born artist. But, I just enjoyed it. I either took art appreciation or I took something. The librarian, Sister...
Sister Eileen: Sister Francis James?
Vivian: Sister Francis James. I remember her well. Sister Eulalia, I took a lot of Home Ec. courses, not that I'm very good at it, but I took Home Ec. courses; sewing, cooking, and everything that your mother may do. I took a lot of things that I didn't use as a career, I used to develop me. And that was another thing you could do. It took a much heavier schedule than you could take if there were thousands of kids. I graduated with a lot of hours I didn't need. I needed them to graduate.
Sister Eileen: Who was president when you were there?
Vivian: It was Sister Dorothy.
Sister Eileen: I think she was Dean.
Vivian: Dean is what...
Sister Eileen: I think she was Dean. I think probably Mother Gerald was president.
Vivian: She might have been, Sister Dorothy was the one that was present. She was what we thought of as head.
Sister Eileen: Yes, she was the Dean.
Vivian: Yes, because Mother Gerald wasn't there very often, when she came, it would be like if she came now, she doesn't have to be president, you would still treat her as Mother Gerald because she was Mother Gerald.
Sister Eileen: Yes.
Vivian: And then Mother Genevieve.
Sister Eileen: Later.
Vivian: Later. Sister Trinita taught me.
Sister Eileen: Did she?
Vivian: Sister Trinita, yeah, she was in drama, I didn't do drama. I don't know if she taught me or she just campused me. I think she just campused me. We were very mean in those days. But, I knew her well, even through going to drama, I did not participate in drama, but either through going to it or she taught something I took. Sister Eulalia, no I said Sister. Let's see, who else was there? I took science, who would I have taken science with? Oh, Sister Mary Jeanne taught me. She's there now, is she there now?
Sister Eileen: Yes, and Sister Mary Jane.
Vivian: And Sister Mary Jane, bless her heart, I remember all kinds of things about her. I remember she drove a little fast. She was a little tiny thing and of course you had the big bonnets in those days, so you couldn't see as well, I guess, when you were driving. Once time, because she was getting tickets, and you can't get tickets anytime, you're not supposed to, but she came roaring into the campus and drove the car up. She just left it and ran in to get protection, and the police right on her tail, because she had been caught, but she didn't stop. She went in for Mother Superior or whoever was there to protect her but nobody would protect her. "Glory be to St. Patrick's" she said. Her low hands would fly, that was her favorite saying,"Glory be to St. Patrick." She was cute. Is she around?
Sister Eileen: No, she's dead. She died within the last ten years.
Vivian: Bless her. She was a doll.
Sister Eileen: Well, Sister Francis Clare, though, maybe you remember something about her.
Vivian: Sister Francis Clare.
Sister Eileen: She was in Stenography.
Vivian: See, I didn't take that. I ended up being an executive secretary, but I didn't take it. I learned that on my own later, I really learned that on the job.
Sister Eileen: Oh, that's good. Do you keep in touch with any of the...
Vivian: Sister Francis James.
Sister Eileen: She's dead. She was the librarian.
Vivian: Yes, but then let's see. What did do you say her name was?
Sister Eileen: Sister Agnes Cecile.
Vivian: Oh, yes, Sister Agnes Cecile taught me a whole bunch of things.
Sister Eileen: She's celebrating her Diamond Jubilee this year.
Vivian: Oh my, she taught me all kinds of stuff. I took several courses from her. Greek... no it was appreciation, I didn't study the language. I studied Spanish, who would I have studied with?
Sister Eileen: Sister Mary Jeanne maybe.
Vivian: Maybe Sister Mary Jeanne. I lived across the street originally, not on campus and she was the house nun. We had maybe ten of us over there. And of course, that house is demolished, it burned down I guess. Then I moved onto the campus the next year.
Sister Eileen: Well, that gives me a pretty good run down on Barry, who were your teachers there. Now, as a board member, how do you look at Barry?
Vivian: Well, do you want me to tell you how I got to become a board member?
Sister Eileen: You can tell me about that, yes.
Vivian: Because that was interesting. Sister Dorothy asked me to hand out the drive for the library. The library was not built and she knew of my connection with Monsignor and she told me that they were going to name the library after him -the William Barry Memorial Library. So, with all those little hooks and sinkers, she reeled me in and I said I would. So, we found a matching gift, whatever we raised this man would match. I don't remember who it was. Oh, Weigand. Weigand said he'd match it.
Sister Eileen: This is for the library?
Vivian: This is for the library. It was a matching game. So, I really knuckled down and went all out and I think we ended up... I don't want to say, but I know for that time, today it's not as much money, but for that time because that was when the library was being built. We had about 50 thousand dollars. I might have had 25 and he matched it or we might have had thirty and he matched it and made 60, but it was up to that time they got 12 thousand at the alumni drive. We got quite a bit. Of course, I hit more than alumni and everybody put up a fight to get the money.
So, then Sister invited me to be on the board. I said, "Gee, I really don't feel capable about being on the board, I really don't know much about the University" because I have been working and I have not been part of it really after that. So, she said that they have an advisory board and I said, "Well, I'll go on the advisory board for a little bit and learn something and you learn something." Because I didn't have any money and I knew I couldn't give money, and I wondered what I could give except a successful alumni drive, but that didn't seem to be enough to me. But, at any rate, I went on the advisory board for one year and they invited me again to be on the board, so I went on the board. In those days, board was different. I've been on the board a long time abeling him not to turn the board over to the trustees. It was more than an advisory board anyway. It really was not a true, we were not really responsive. So, now I've been on the board ever since.
Sister Eileen: You did different things on the board. You were on the finance committee
Vivian: Yes, I went on the finance committee and learned the hard way that there is no connection between finance for a university and finance for business. I came in with all these hot shot ideas and they were illegal in a university. You know, "Why don't you appreciate... Why don't you do this" You're not allowed to do this. By the time they educated me and I educated them, we did do some things, we did do some investing. They had nothing going for us, this was a long time ago. So, we set up an investment policy and we had some expertise there and we were always borrowing money in those days to make payroll. We had a long line, but we made it. It worked out and I learned a lot. I think I was of some help.
Sister Eileen: You were a great deal of help. You were also on the planning committee of '76-'77.
Vivian: Yes, but mostly I think that was, when did we go co-educational? Isn't that awful? I can't remember.
Sister Eileen: I can't say exactly when. I would say some place in that area.
Vivian: I know it was a hot item, and we felt that eventually we'd have to do that and probably not only have to do that, but it would probably be good for the university. I was always torn with the knowledge that Monsignor wanted this to be a woman's college. I was torn with the knowledge that I have outgrown that because I live in today's world and as a business woman, I knew that was never going to fly, but it's hard to go against the founders' desires. And yet, if the founder was here today I know he would say, "You have to go with the world you are living." And that depends. That is always a traumatic thing for me to adjust the past to the present.
Sister Eileen: Then you were in student affairs.
Vivian: Then I got student affairs. Well, I asked for that because I really felt I didn't have a handle on the school. It's really difficult to go there four times a year to a board meeting and at least when you have the committee, you have... but our committee meetings were sort of tied in with the board meeting and it was almost the same day because many of our people had to fly out. It wasn't the college's fault, it was my fault and I could have come there any time I wanted, but you've got your own busy life, and you've got your own busy job. You go where the squeaky wheel is and that's always been with my job. So, I felt, "Well, I'm not really getting a handle on the students." So I asked if I could serve on that committee and somehow when you ask if you can serve on the committee you end up being the chairman of the committee. But, I learned a lot there too. I had an opportunity to meet with the students, and to listen to their inner problems which is always food or something. But, also to listen to their views.
There was a lot of interest in South American students then who had come and moved to us. They had a unique set of opportunities here and yet at the same time, challenges here. It was just always so interesting that students were always so great and today I think that's the best community you can enter into. You really work right with the students and listen to them.
Sister Eileen: Now, the last few years, you've been on the Academic Affairs Committee.
Vivian: Yes, they asked me to serve on that. The chairman of that was one of our out of town directors here who is marvelous and does a fine job, but it was very difficult to be here when we needed him because flying in an out of state is hard itself. I thought, "well, I was an education minor, I should know something about that and that would give me another dimension." It's very educational for the board of trustees to serve on the committee. So, I enjoyed that too. The only difficulty I'm sure is for the new Deans because they'd have to take a U- turn and then educate them because I came in with probably questions that they've already answered.
Sister Eileen: You only see Deans, you don't see any other faculty?
Vivian: Yes, we do, yes. I have seen a lot of the faculty and I have gotten to know a lot of the faculty. The fact is, I have lunch with them every board meeting day, I have lunch with the state faculty Senate. We were talking about a Merit system and being a business woman, I think that's the only way to go. And so, I'm pushing this thing and being an active ambition, they don't feel that this is the only way to go. And so, I think they were afraid we were going to force them because the board was interested. So, I say, "Why don't we meet and talk it out? It's the only thing we can do." They said, "No, it's only going to me little me and all of them." But, they were very open and I think they realized that I was there to listen and not to be judgmental. It was very, very interesting and enlightening. They had an entirely different view and you might too, because you're on that side of the fence and have an entirely different view as we do in the business world. I can respect those view points. I think the consensus sort of ended up that if we had enough money at the university, which we were gradually accumulating and doing well on, and everyone was really paid the market, and nobody was being paid below market, that we were really meeting the standards of what the faculty should earn, they would be more inclined to be anamonous and account that system. They didn't want to feel that they were making an arms length of the business. That is not the way a business runs. You're put in this world and I'll fight for it all and you have to fight for your own, it's just a different world. So, I learned a great deal there and I have been telling the board all of this to get them to listen to the adjustment.
Sister Eileen: In all these years, how did you evaluate Barry? What would be our weaknesses and what would be our strengths?
Vivian: I think it has a lot more strengths than weaknesses. We went through a bad time I think, again, we're talking to a conservative, old- fashioned person. And I am, no matter how you slice it. I'm not naive anymore, and I am certainly am progressing, but I am conservative. I thought I was disappointed in the students when they had no dress code. We went from the sublime to the ridiculous, but I learned that everything does. You're living way up here and finally you seek a level and the world did, not just Barry University, I'm not just criticizing us. I would expect Barry to be above the world and maybe that is naive. So, I was disappointed when we went through that period of time and everybody looked like somebody slapped something on and nobody seemed to care.
We had speakers on the campus that I could not tolerate. The feelings I got from them, these are weaknesses to me, but these are past, the feeling I got was that the head of the school didn't have control over that, but they didn't have to make the appointment. I don't believe that, there's a head to everything. Nobody could convince me that the president of the school couldn't control school regardless of what they've told me. So, I didn't like that. They had some problems - terrible. They liked that. They had archery. Those that I didn't agree with. So, I personally went through some traumatic sections of Barry and I thought Barry was not a head and shoulders above the world that I thought it should be and could be. But, depending on the swinging. I think it has swung back and also the question that we were proud to be a Catholic University. We were trying to just be and I don't believe in being. You either be something or don't be at all. But, if you can't be a Catholic University, then I don't see why I support it. I can think of other good schools to support.
I think it has swung back. Nothing is perfect, nor am I or anybody else, but I think it has swung back. I think we have a good board that a diversified board, we have good representation from both Catholic and not. We need that, but we at least have Catholics back on it that puts our interest back in which balances so we're not too far on the right. I think to my knowledge we don't have this kind of presentations going on anymore. I've seen some good things there, some wholesome things, not everything is clean, not everything. But, as a general feeling, I have kids, admiring it that come for that. The young ladies are marvelous. I've had groups out for dinner and have been extremely proud of them. When you do that, they are willing to ask and well dressed and really attractive. We've had some of our club, private club, and there were students you could be really proud of. I am proud of it.
Sister Eileen: But, today what do you think are the weaknesses?
Vivian: Well, I don't know. I think the students are well on target and we're giving them a productively hard time on some of the degrees because we seem to approve a whole lot of degrees and I want to be sure they're either on going or not. I think the only weaknesses would have to be, to my knowledge, I don't see any weaknesses in the faculty although the faculty to my knowledge are happy with one another, far different from several years back. The senate, I haven't had any... if anybody should tell me things, it should be these people when I put myself open to them and I don't get any feeling there. I think we've had, maybe I'm wrong that it's a weakness here, but I think we've had compromised on some of our academic standards in order to help some students that need help. I hope we're not doing it at the level of, well the highest level and I think we're not. I think we're working toward keeping the high level but you do have to if you're going to help anybody, you have to compromise some.
I think the Adult Education is fantastic and it's well received. I hear it all over. People want more of it so, the teachers have to be good or who's going to pay? And they're not out there to get a degree down there, just to say, "I went to college." They're spending their adult time and effort and money because they're learning and they're happy with what they learn. I think the quality of the faculty is good, and I hear it's good.
Sister Eileen: How would you evaluate our presidents? Sister Dorothy was almost like the one you'd go to school with.
Vivian: Yes, Sister Dorothy, I view differently because to me she was an authoritarian person. She was a student and we had been depending on this too far. They were terribly strict, you couldn't do anything. If we went to Chapel without a veil, you got in trouble. To me, I never understood that, to me, if you got up at 6 o'clock and went to church, you ought to be grateful that the kid was in church and off campus because you didn't have a veil on your head. But, they were very strict, so I can't judge her them.
Sister Eileen: What about when you were there when she was president?
Vivian: You mean when I was on the board when she was there?
Sister Eileen: Well, in general.
Vivian: I could only equate to her as a friend. I could equate to her as a student, and she was an authority to me. Then, I equated to her on the board because the minimum, I'd see her on the board and then she'd let me in the library. So, I really didn't have any judgment. And then, I thought she was a human diamond. I thought she was every world all the time and did a good job.
Sister Eileen: How would you feel about Sister Trinita as president?
Vivian: I quarreled with Sister Trinita a lot allowing some of these things to happen. It was always me that did that. I understand her position on that but I helped get her elected because I felt strongly that Barry should be headed by a Catholic nun. If there wasn't a competent Catholic nun in the whole United States, then that doesn't speak too well for the Catholic defense. So, I was on the search committee to help find one.
I think academically she did superbly, and I think the teachers were on her side and they got along well with her. She was saddled with debt and previously, the board for many years was not immediately in charge of the college, it was an advisory board so to speak, now we were responsible for it and there was a debt and you apparently can't get grants and you can't get much of anything unless you are in the black and not in the red. So, our first tackling hard experience was to try to reduce that debt both by cutting cost which was difficult, and by not raising salaries which was difficult too. She was really in a difficult position because here she was in charge of this thing and we were saying, "You can't do this and you can't do that." She recognized that, but it's very difficult to work with faculty and to know that they are paid under market. It took many years, but over the years, she really did reduce the debt. We did not have opportunity to built endowment and there had never been an endowment before. It was a typical college that was hand in mouth all the years of its growing years and did not build for the future because it just didn't need to and it was when it was in incubation period.
Sister Eileen: Say a few things about Sister Jeanne.
Vivian: Well, Sister Jeanne is coursed entirely different. Sister Jeanne is a very outgoing person who likes to make speeches, who likes to be in the limelight, Sister Trinita did not particularly and never reported to be. She told us from the very beginning, "I am not that kind of person and don't expect me to be out there making all those speeches." And yet, when she got to be president, she was out there making very many speeches, and she did an excellent job at it, she just didn't twist the knife which you need to do. Sister Jeanne has no problems with asking for it right up front. And we need that now and it was a good opportunity. We were at the point where we had done as much reducing as we could do and now we had to go out there and overtly get the money. It was a timely change.
Sister Eileen: What would you say about what the community is saying about Barry now?
Vivian: I think it's positive. I think they're saying as much about Sister Jeanne as they're saying about Barry, at least in the circles that I travel. At this point, Sister is Barry rather than Barry being headed by Sister Jeanne. Good, bad, and different, we're getting the money and it takes money to run the place and also to expand it and to build the things that we want to build. You have to give her a lot of credit for being out there pounding the pavement and pounding the doors and representing us to the point where she can get these things.
Sister Eileen: Is there anything else you'd like to say?
Vivian: No, I think it's a very exciting time to be on the board, we have some very good board members, it has expanded my knowledge of people and I appreciated that opportunity. We've got exciting things going on right now and Adult Education School is extremely exciting. I'm hoping one near First Park that Sister Nell and Anna Markus could work there. That would be great.
Sister Eileen: I hope so. Thank you very much